Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers, who is presiding over the Epic Games v. Apple case, grilled Apple CEO Tim Cook for nearly 10 minutes in direct questioning on the final day of the trial.
It was the longest questioning she has asked a witness during the ongoing trial. Gonzalez Rogers questioned Cook about the App Store's business model and Apple's relationship with developers. The questioning session became increasingly tense for Apple as some of the questions began to be directed against the company.
You said you want to give users control, so what's the problem with giving users a cheaper option for content?
Tim Cook: “We need a return on our investment”
Cook clarified that by control he meant control over data and explained that users had the choice between “many different Android models and an iPhone.” The judge then asked:
But if they want a cheaper Battle Pass and cheaper V-Bucks and don't know that option exists, what's the problem with Apple giving them that option?
Cook seemed surprised by the nature of the questioning. He said that Apple needs to get a return on its investment in intellectual property. That's why Apple charges a 30 percent commission on app and in-app purchases. He continued:
If we allowed developers to link, we would give up our monetization. We need a return on our investment. We have 150,000 APIs to build and maintain, numerous developer tools, and processing fees.
Judge Gonzalez Rogers seemed dissatisfied with that answer. She said Apple could generate a return in other ways and noted that it appears the gaming industry is "subsidizing" other apps on the App Store.
Survey: 39% of app developers are dissatisfied with Apple
The gaming industry seems to generate a disproportionate amount of money relative to the investment you've given them and everyone else. In fact, it's almost as if they're subsidizing everyone else.
Cook responded by explaining that purchases are made on the platform, so game developers owe Apple the commission. When Gonzalez Rogers retorted that “people buy a lot of things on [Apple’s] platform Cook said that "there are clearly other ways to monetize but we chose this one because we think it's the better way." Rogers shot back:
It's also quite lucrative.
At another point in her questioning, Gonzalez asked Rogers Cook about a survey that found 39% of app developers were unhappy with Apple. He said Apple "turns the shop upside down" for its developers, but noted that there is friction because Apple rejects 40% of apps.
Epic vs. Apple: Closing arguments will be made on Monday
Towards the end of the testimony, Gonzalez Rogers asked if Cook agreed that competition is good. Cook responded by saying that Apple has "tough competition." The judge then replied that Apple does not compete in the distribution of gaming apps. Cook disagreed, stating that Apple competes with consoles like the Xbox or Switch. According to Gonzalez Rogers, that is only the case if consumers are aware of those platforms. Cook then countered by claiming that it is up to developers to communicate. In other words, Judge Gonzalez Rogers' entire questioning seemed to convey skepticism about Apple's business model. She also doubted that the company's small business program on the App Store was launched primarily because of COVID-19.
It doesn't seem to me that you have any competition or much incentive to work for developers.
The final day of the trial in Epic Games vs. Apple took place on May 21. Both parties will make closing arguments on Monday, May 24, which will mark the end of the trial. (Image: Apple)
